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SuperAntigen.niketalk

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Sep 6 09 3:23 PM

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So I just finished reading this study which I thought I'd share it with Niketalk--considering I found it to be immensely interesting. I'd post the study in it's entirety, but that mug is six pages long and we all know Niketalkers have a strong aversion towards reading.

Posted in the SPOILER, however, are some thought provoking excerpts/revelations...





Anyway, one important question raised by the study was whether it was beneficial or detrimental to discuss "race" with young children. In other words, "do we make it worse, or do we make it better, by calling attention to race?"

So Niketalk, what are your thoughts on this...?




Here's a link to the full study if you're interested in reading the entire thing:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/214989/page/1



...


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AntonLaVey.niketalk

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#3 [url]

Sep 6 09 3:27 PM

Yes all animals are born with a certain level of xenophobia because of its probable positive fitness benefits. Discriminating kin from non-kin is an issue of safety and territorialism in nature. Racism tho is mostly learned.

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Jehul

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#4 [url]

Sep 6 09 3:32 PM

Interesting article, good post...


Bigler ran a study in which children read brief biographies of famous African-Americans. For instance, in a biography of Jackie Robinson, they read that he was the first African-American in the major leagues. But only half read about how he'd previously been relegated to the Negro Leagues, and how he suffered taunts from white fans. Those facts-in five brief sentences were omitted in the version given to the other children.

After the two-week history class, the children were surveyed on their racial attitudes. White children who got the full story about historical discrimination had significantly better attitudes toward blacks than those who got the neutered version. Explicitness works. "It also made them feel some guilt," Bigler adds. "It knocked down their glorified view of white people." They couldn't justify in-group superiority.

Preparation for bias is not, however, the only way minorities talk to their children about race. The other broad category of conversation, in Harris-Britt's analysis, is ethnic pride. From a very young age, minority children are coached to be proud of their ethnic history. She found that this was exceedingly good for children's self-confidence; in one study, black children who'd heard messages of ethnic pride were more engaged in school and more likely to attribute their success to their effort and ability. That leads to the question that everyone wonders but rarely dares to ask. If "black pride" is good for African-American children, where does that leave white children? It's horrifying to imagine kids being "proud to be white." Yet many scholars argue that's exactly what children's brains are already computing. Just as minority children are aware that they belong to an ethnic group with less status and wealth, most white children naturally decipher that they belong to the race that has more power, wealth, and control in society; this provides security, if not confidence. So a pride message would not just be abhorrent-it'd be redundant.

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Apples28

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#5 [url]

Sep 6 09 3:33 PM

imma have to read this but i think if you point out race to a child at a young age you are showing its importance and making it something a child might see first before looking at a persons personality. but ill be back if my opinion changes

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Mangudai954

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Sep 6 09 3:36 PM

AntonLaVey wrote:
Yes all animals are born with a certain level of xenophobia because of its probable positive fitness benefits. Discriminating kin from non-kin is an issue of safety and territorialism in nature. Racism tho is mostly learned.




Relate to the hate im everything that ever was..

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Kicktionair.niketalk

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Sep 6 09 3:37 PM

The difference comes in if the kids will commit racist acts based on their assumptions.

Thats where we see the racism. If a person acts upon their ideas, then we have a problem. People can think whatever they want inside but they must act according in order to not affect others.

I hate certain types of people but I will not punch them or tease them etc

but im no expert

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ccookielover49

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Sep 6 09 3:38 PM

good read op. Its interesting how stuff like that is passed down through our traits. but I feel that parents should start teaching their kids about race and how to not judge people for what race they are, but for what on the inside. i.e personality, morals, etc.

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Sugahill19

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#9 [url]

Sep 6 09 3:39 PM

I hate people who want to talk about "white pride" just because of the term "black pride". This is the perfect way of putting it:

If "black pride" is good for African-American children, where does that leave white children? It's horrifying to imagine kids being "proud to be white." Yet many scholars argue that's exactly what children's brains are already computing. Just as minority children are aware that they belong to an ethnic group with less status and wealth, most white children naturally decipher that they belong to the race that has more power, wealth, and control in society; this provides security, if not confidence. So a pride message would not just be abhorrent-it'd be redundant.

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#10 [url]

Sep 6 09 3:42 PM

Mangudai954 wrote:
AntonLaVey wrote:
Yes all animals are born with a certain level of xenophobia because of its probable positive fitness benefits. Discriminating kin from non-kin is an issue of safety and territorialism in nature. Racism tho is mostly learned.



image
He's right, we are animals (not savages). The only thing that separates us from the rest of them is our species name and how we adapted to the environment.

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#11 [url]

Sep 6 09 3:44 PM

I wouldn't classify young children as "babies"....but

"do we make it worse, or do we make it better, by calling attention to race?"
...I think the Blue/Red study shows that the hatred isn't inherent...

[qutoe]The kids didn't segregate in their behavior. They played with each other freely at recess. But when asked which color team was better to belong to, or which team might win a race, they chose their own color. They believed they were smarter than the other color. "The Reds never showed hatred for Blues," Bigler observed. "It was more like, 'Blues are fine, but not as good as us.' " When Reds were asked how many Reds were nice, they'd answer, "All of us." Asked how many Blues were nice, they'd answer, "Some." Some of the Blues were mean, and some were dumb-but not the Reds.[/quote]... we all like to categorize and think we're better... but it's what that thinking leads to is the problem when there is a conflict of ideas.


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Nash.niketalk

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#12 [url]

Sep 6 09 3:50 PM

The part about Jackie Robinson particularly struck me...I feel that if our schools taught more on race relations throughout American history we'd have a lot less ignorant people telling blacks to "just get over it."

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SuperAntigen.niketalk

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#13 [url]

Sep 6 09 3:52 PM

AntonLaVey wrote:
Yes all animals are born with a certain level of xenophobia because of its probable positive fitness benefits. Discriminating kin from non-kin is an issue of safety and territorialism in nature. Racism tho is mostly learned.

Yeah that was definitely the first thing that popped into my mind; the fact that, a child that is six months old is merely making an attempt to differentiate kin from non-kin so as to resort to an appropriate response along the lines of "fight" or "flight".

But what's interesting about "race" is the fact that it does not accurately determine relatedness considering it was a social construct based on very false pretenses. Furthermore, a similar looking individual is about as likely to hurt a non-kin child as a non-similar looking individual.

So when a child is looking at the picture of two people, and making subtle discriminations based on skin shade, which is initially biologically influenced, and which will intuitively "guide" and influence them as they grow up and interact with others, should we make an effort to do something about it--even though it's "natural"...

...


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Infyrno23

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#14 [url]

Sep 6 09 4:00 PM

i think its a very touchy subject that should be retweeked in our history classes....
growing up there were certain things in history, that are offensive to black people, and it makes you look at your white class mates differently

me and my friends from school talked about this once in college.... had we not been taught of this unfair treatment, we wouldnt have had the "slight" different look at each other.... i mean it was like a light bulb clicked in everybody and you saw the black kids faces start tighten up,a nd the white kids faces kinda embarassed.... and its stupid.

lucky for us we were all good enough friends and smart enough to realize, none of that stuff happened to us... so we treat each other based off our own actions. i have some of my best friends from school that are white, and we crack race jokes on each other all day... .people look at us like we are racist but we really are just mocking the stupidity of racisim.

certain things need not be talked about anymore, i it should be researched how to teach history without letting certain things seep into the subconcious mind of a kid thats developing everything they are gonna be in the personality..... also the parents are a big factor.... my Dad was directly involved with race riots and crosses burned in our family front yard... etc... so he had a slight negative view to white extreme racist... but he always taught me that no man should be judged by color... but by his character.

*forgive me for any misspelled words... typing fast.


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Last Edited By: Infyrno23 Sep 6 09 4:10 PM. Edited 1 time.

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SuperAntigen.niketalk

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#18 [url]

Sep 6 09 4:19 PM

Dirtylicious wrote:
I wouldn't classify young children as "babies"....but

"do we make it worse, or do we make it better, by calling attention to race?"
...I think the Blue/Red study shows that the hatred isn't inherent...

[qutoe]The kids didn't segregate in their behavior. They played with each other freely at recess. But when asked which color team was better to belong to, or which team might win a race, they chose their own color. They believed they were smarter than the other color. "The Reds never showed hatred for Blues," Bigler observed. "It was more like, 'Blues are fine, but not as good as us.' " When Reds were asked how many Reds were nice, they'd answer, "All of us." Asked how many Blues were nice, they'd answer, "Some." Some of the Blues were mean, and some were dumb-but not the Reds.[/quote]... we all like to categorize and think we're better... but it's what that thinking leads to is the problem when there is a conflict of ideas.

Well the study looks at both "babies" and "young children". But the revelation that "babies" have some capacity to discriminate--which is surprising (if you're not remotely versed in evolutionary biology)--is what's fascinating--the hook of this scientific song if you will.

I mean, it's conceivable to expect young children--who relative to babies, have a noted ability to communicate and understand--to discriminate simply because of what their parents subscribe to. But discriminating babies--that's def. worthy of a front page title...

Also, the reds may have never shown hatred towards the blues, but that's not what I'm interested in. What I want to know, is what the blues thought, and how they would react upon finding out that the reds considered themselves "superior" to them--smarter than them--nicer than them--and definitely not as mean as them. That's what I'm curious to know.

The reds may not be "hateful" towards the blue, but their subscription of "superiority" is definitely the type of enzyme that catalyzes hate and fear in the real world.

...


All that matters is that I KNOW YOU. As for me, I prefer to stay in the shadows with the Usual Suspects...'matter o'fact, you can call me Keyser
Soze...

Last Edited By: SuperAntigen Sep 6 09 4:22 PM. Edited 1 time.

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Mangudai954

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#19 [url]

Sep 6 09 4:38 PM

SaltineWarrior wrote:
Mangudai954 wrote:
AntonLaVey wrote:
Yes all animals are born with a certain level of xenophobia because of its probable positive fitness benefits. Discriminating kin from non-kin is an issue of safety and territorialism in nature. Racism tho is mostly learned.



image
He's right, we are animals (not savages). The only thing that separates us from the rest of them is our species name and how we adapted to the environment.



I disagree but carry on.

Relate to the hate im everything that ever was..

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#20 [url]

Sep 6 09 8:42 PM

Nash wrote:
The part about Jackie Robinson particularly struck me...I feel that if our schools taught more on race relations throughout American history we'd have a lot less ignorant people telling blacks to "just get over it."
totally agree, but id like to add that history classes shouldnt be only concerned with glorifying America as some perfect place with the right to do whatever it pleases.

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