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secretzofwar

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#321 [url]

Jul 15 12 12:37 PM

Sounds like we're on the same page then AKA.

Perceived quality is all that really matters. Are Apple computers really worth $1,500 more than your everyday laptop? For 99% of people...of course not! But that doesn't really matter.

I just think its wrong to state that Nike is in any trouble. Even most ballers don't complain about Nike. We may know the LeBron II performs better than any of the last 3 shoes, but it doesn't really matter. "The IX's have crazy colors."

There's a reason why the industry is jocking the "volt" trend like crazy.

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#322 [url]

Jul 15 12 7:12 PM

secretzofwar wrote:
Sounds like we're on the same page then AKA.

Perceived quality is all that really matters. Are Apple computers really worth $1,500 more than your everyday laptop? For 99% of people...of course not! But that doesn't really matter.

I just think its wrong to state that Nike is in any trouble. Even most ballers don't complain about Nike. We may know the LeBron II performs better than any of the last 3 shoes, but it doesn't really matter. "The IX's have crazy colors."

There's a reason why the industry is jocking the "volt" trend like crazy.
I'd like to see where you are getting that information, because many that I know here in NYC are pretty pissed about the current pricing, for cheaply made product.

Nike IS in trouble, not from outsiders, but from within. It's pretty clear that they are moving toward something that they aren't clear about themselves, in regard to materials, see the aforementioned hyperdunk. For years nobody knew how Nike was just doing it in regard to production and costs, but if those indicators in regard to earnings are correct, with those numbers saying what they are actually saying, just like with the housing market, that bubble seems to be ready to burst.

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OGMX23.niketalk

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Posts: 496

#323 [url]

Jul 15 12 8:15 PM

CWK wrote:
- The pay was competitive, but I was never at a really high pay level.  I relocated across the country for an internship to see if I could make it on campus and land my dream job.

- I'll search my archives to see if I can find more pictures of my collection.

 

I got these OG AJ III from a guy in NIKE Netherlands who assured me they were worn by Scottie Pippen.



Those flightposite 2s *DEAD*

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vood99

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#325 [url]

Jul 16 12 10:33 AM

AKALONGSTROKE wrote:
secretzofwar wrote:
AKALONGSTROKE wrote:

True, Jordan is a Nike company, no doubt. However, Jordan Brand carries the Basketball brand, not Nike basketball. Jordan himself knows this, thus the Jumpman, not the swoosh, on the back of his shoes. Trust, Jordan leaves Nike, it's over. He has threatened to do so in the past, but didn't. Perhaps a nice little restructuring would put things in their proper perspective.

In regard to making the claim that all Adidas being bad due to Rose's injury, well, you are correct. Knowing how de_conditioning occurs in athletes that weren't properly conditioned in the first place, many injuries are simply structural, then coming from fatigue, but that wasn't my point with the gif.

The current crop of Nike Basketball shoes are so second rate, that they breakdown as quickly as toilet paper if they are hit right, thus the clip up above, and stuff like this...  

These are Lebron's PERSONAL pair, not the GR, and you mean to tell me that you guys could not get the swoosh right, keeping it on, at least on his pair???

You've got to be kidding me!

I guess you can claim consistency at two hundred fifty dollars......

but not quality.

BTW, in regard to those casual runners, you are really describing mall walkers. So you aren't saying much there...but a sale is a sale!

I've got no argument about the quality/durability issue. This year I've bought 2 adidas basketball shoes and 1 pair of Nike basketball shoes. The Rose 2/2.5's both hold up really well, though I'm not a fan at all of the stability. I thought 2011 was a weak year for basketball products in general, though I haven't tried on the Fly Wade's or Melo 8's, which I've heard good things about. LeBron IX is an extremely mediocre basketball shoe, and the Kobe VII is awful.

I don't think MJ is really worried about his $30-$50m annual annuity stream from Nike.

As for the casual runner, I'm referencing the hundreds of people I see running down Lake Shore Drive in Chicago every day. These are people, like myself, who run 10-15 miles per week (I'd say this is the majority of "runners"). Now, whether or not these 45 year old moms should be running in Nike Frees...I don't know. What I do know is they are wearing Nike hats, Nike jackets, Nike shoes, and Lululemon pants or Tempo shorts.

From Matt Powell over at SportsOneSource

“Running remained a strong category even as sales improved about +10% in units and dollars.  Nike Running sales grew in the low singles and took 54% share. Reebok Running doubled and share nearly doubled to 11%.  Asics grew in the low singles as share hit 11.5%. New Balance declined in the mid singles while Adidas grew in the high singles.  Under Armour Running doubled and share hit 1.3%.  The Core Running brands (Saucony, Mizuno and Brooks) all had solid performances.

As we have seen for a while Lightweight is now cannibalizing the traditional Running categories.  Stability declined in the high singles and Cushioning in the low singles.  Lightweight Running grew about 75% and represented 30% of all Running shoes sold for the quarter. In Lightweight Nike has a 45% share, Reebok 32%, and Adidas 5%.

Minimalist Running (a subset of Lightweight) grew more than double for the quarter, and represented about 9% of all Running.  Nike has 71% share of minimal driven by the Free franchise.  Vibram, Merrell, New balance, Asics and Saucony each have about a 5% share.”



The problem that I have with the SportsOneSource quote is that it does not, then could not, indicate who is buying the gear, and then for what purpose. I am certain that you'll see the people that you've mentioned running in Nike gear in Chi Town, and that does speak to sales. I cannot argue how Nike is incredibly visible, they make that a priority, one that would serve Adidas well if they've ever wake up and realize that you must be SEEN, in order to capitalize on a market that is ripe to be taken over.

But my issue with Nike, then always has been, is that they are about hype, not quality. Their running line is available everywhere, and if you don't know any better, you'd think that since they've started out as a running company, they'd know running shoes. But for serious runners, those that I pay attention to, they know this to not be the case. I am the same way about kicks for hoops. I can point to one or two recent kicks from Nike that are hip, serious balling shoes, but if you listen to the crowd, like those who are here, those who've never played at a high level other than while gaming, Nike basketball can do no wrong.

Those of us who ball, then are not sneakerheads, know better.

But since Nike is everywhere, then available to everyone, of course the perception, through sales mind you, that Nike is the best.  

Well, using that line of reasoning, McDonald's makes the best food all over the world as well.



   Well said AKA.

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MP23

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#326 [url]

Jul 16 12 3:40 PM

I totally agree on the Nike running brand on how they are about fashion, not performance, save for the standby's that people actually run in, Pegasus, Structures, Motos, etc. They continue to bring out the Air Max, yet not one single serious runner actually runs in this, just a fashion statement. You wonder why they continue to pump out the Shox Turbo? Because people think they look "cool" not because they are high performance runners. Nike needs to continue on the Lunareclipse/Glide series; they have some great technology while still being nice enough for the casual/mall walkers as AKA puts it, which is totally true.

The basketball and football side they dominate so much that its almost like they can rest on their laurels and stop innovating and we have seen this with their designs on a major level. When's the last time Nike basketball shoe that made you go "Wow!!" You have to go back to like the days of the Ultraflight, Zoom Flight 2k3, Flight Turbine etc. You can argue about performance all you want, at least the designs were new and eye-catching, trying to do new things instead of the cookie-cutter Hyper/Flywire shoe year after year. Or the standard crap upper and put a Max Air bag in the heel and call it good. And yeah I'm a Nike guy, but just like Rock said, there is no way in hell I'd ever buy anything Nike for full price, not when I know how much of a discount you can obtain and how much they are made for inititally. Yes, I know costs are rising for everything from materials/transportation, etc. too but still damn.

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NikeDealer.niketalk

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#327 [url]

Jul 16 12 3:54 PM

MP23 wrote:
I totally agree on the Nike running brand on how they are about fashion, not performance, save for the standby's that people actually run in, Pegasus, Structures, Motos, etc. They continue to bring out the Air Max, yet not one single serious runner actually runs in this, just a fashion statement. You wonder why they continue to pump out the Shox Turbo? Because people think they look "cool" not because they are high performance runners. Nike needs to continue on the Lunareclipse/Glide series; they have some great technology while still being nice enough for the casual/mall walkers as AKA puts it, which is totally true.

THIS is unreal to me and is a great point .... why?  because if you were to ask MANY women who work out.... or just wear kicks casually they will tell you they love the way the Shox LOOKS not performs.

You really cant argue with a consumer when they say its about looks over performance although they think its comfy too. Personally I hate PLAYING in Shox.. but think they are comfy too.   I'd disagree with AKA as well on Nike's troubles, because even with how others are trending Nike's still has a stronghold that won't let up for quite some time. 

Also when it comes to Nike's abundance in stores... its because Merchandisers and buyers work that out. Buyers for stores want Nike.. and Merchandisers want their Nike stuff at Eye level in Key spots. This goes both for Large retailers as well as small Urban spots too. Adi cant fight that if they want.  Go into a Footlocker or DTLR in my area and the Adi lite is not in a quick eye catching spot  but poo poo Nike's and Jordans are in addition to their Signature stuff. You can debate if thats all the same in some cases for Jordan...

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BigLescobar

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#328 [url]

Jul 16 12 4:27 PM

VeryGood thread.....I have recently gotten into the shoe industry and have consulted with an ex Nike PLM and another high ranking ex employee about the sourcing/production end and they have shed alot of light on the reason that Nike retros have progressively gotten worse, many of them have been spelled out in this thread all relating to cost. Many things such as the incorrect lasts/ shapes and colorways just boil down to sheer laziness and lack of caring in my models cases in addition to the obvious bidding to the lower priced factory without a regard to what type of job that factory does.

Also most people do not realize this, but almost all shoe brands over the past 20 years have been produced by the same group that controls most of the factories, Pou Chen.

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#329 [url]

Jul 16 12 9:11 PM

NikeDealer wrote:
MP23 wrote:
I totally agree on the Nike running brand on how they are about fashion, not performance, save for the standby's that people actually run in, Pegasus, Structures, Motos, etc. They continue to bring out the Air Max, yet not one single serious runner actually runs in this, just a fashion statement. You wonder why they continue to pump out the Shox Turbo? Because people think they look "cool" not because they are high performance runners. Nike needs to continue on the Lunareclipse/Glide series; they have some great technology while still being nice enough for the casual/mall walkers as AKA puts it, which is totally true.

THIS is unreal to me and is a great point .... why?  because if you were to ask MANY women who work out.... or just wear kicks casually they will tell you they love the way the Shox LOOKS not performs.

You really cant argue with a consumer when they say its about looks over performance although they think its comfy too. Personally I hate PLAYING in Shox.. but think they are comfy too.   I'd disagree with AKA as well on Nike's troubles, because even with how others are trending Nike's still has a stronghold that won't let up for quite some time. 

Also when it comes to Nike's abundance in stores... its because Merchandisers and buyers work that out. Buyers for stores want Nike.. and Merchandisers want their Nike stuff at Eye level in Key spots. This goes both for Large retailers as well as small Urban spots too. Adi cant fight that if they want.  Go into a Footlocker or DTLR in my area and the Adi lite is not in a quick eye catching spot  but poo poo Nike's and Jordans are in addition to their Signature stuff. You can debate if thats all the same in some cases for Jordan...


   It's because they resemble a dressy heel for the gym. They have an elevated look one that accentuates the leg, as does a pump. How do I know this? My lady wore them until she stepped off of a city curb, then breaking her ankle. Her excuse for diggin' Shox was that they make my legs look cute. She now wears Asics Kinsei for the same exact reason.

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finnns2003

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#330 [url]

Jul 17 12 10:41 AM

BigLescobar wrote:
VeryGood thread.....I have recently gotten into the shoe industry and have consulted with an ex Nike PLM and another high ranking ex employee about the sourcing/production end and they have shed alot of light on the reason that Nike retros have progressively gotten worse, many of them have been spelled out in this thread all relating to cost. Many things such as the incorrect lasts/ shapes and colorways just boil down to sheer laziness and lack of caring in my models cases in addition to the obvious bidding to the lower priced factory without a regard to what type of job that factory does.

Also most people do not realize this, but almost all shoe brands over the past 20 years have been produced by the same group that controls most of the factories, Pou Chen.
Such a shame. What kind of world do we live in where profits are more important than the quality of the product... I'm glad not every company performs like this.

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vood99

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#331 [url]

Jul 17 12 11:48 PM

finnns2003 wrote:
BigLescobar wrote:
VeryGood thread.....I have recently gotten into the shoe industry and have consulted with an ex Nike PLM and another high ranking ex employee about the sourcing/production end and they have shed alot of light on the reason that Nike retros have progressively gotten worse, many of them have been spelled out in this thread all relating to cost. Many things such as the incorrect lasts/ shapes and colorways just boil down to sheer laziness and lack of caring in my models cases in addition to the obvious bidding to the lower priced factory without a regard to what type of job that factory does.

Also most people do not realize this, but almost all shoe brands over the past 20 years have been produced by the same group that controls most of the factories, Pou Chen.
Such a shame. What kind of world do we live in where profits are more important than the quality of the product... I'm glad not every company performs like this.

finnns, greed is prevalent in every facet of life. The sneaker industry is a small fry compared to the financial industry, real estate, etc..

BigEscobar, thanks for dropping knowledge on the Pou Chen group. I was an outlet mall with a pal recently and he commented that damn near all the major brands (Nike, Reebok & Adidas) looked the same, save for the branding. A couple of years ago I would've disagreed with him but this time I just kept quiet. All of 'em are running synthetics on their inline product and the only differences are the patented technologies. Makes you wonder if the Pou Chen group is giving the aforementioned generic designs and telling them here's the most cost effective design we can do for you - go slap your logos on it.

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NikeDealer.niketalk

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Posts: 1,203

#332 [url]

Jul 18 12 8:38 AM

Yeah Vood.. I thought I mentioned that earlier in the thread about Pou Chen and a few other Nike Factories... they run the majority of major brands in America and Italy and Europe...

As for Profit over Quality... bruh... that as Vood says is EVERYWHERE. As a matter of fact as many people want Quality as the owner of the company Quality IS NOT JOB #1 as some people say. That Profit Margin is ...

I say this often.. people are in the business to be IN business. No one can really argue with that business plan. We as Consumers hope quality maintains thru out the life of a company and its products.

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#333 [url]

Jul 19 12 10:51 AM

NikeDealer wrote:


As for Profit over Quality... bruh... that as Vood says is EVERYWHERE. As a matter of fact as many people want Quality as the owner of the company Quality IS NOT JOB #1 as some people say. That Profit Margin is ...


Actually, reputation is more important than anything else. Where Nike succeeds is on their former rep as being a brand that produced innovative product. That reputation is what they are still relying upon, however flawed that present reasoning may be. Now that quality is an issue with Nike, their rep has taken a hit.

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#334 [url]

Aug 10 12 11:38 PM

I always tell people that several nike/jordan models are the exact same shoe, with just minimal changes, this also happens now with nike making models of lebrons that just dont feature any of his logos i.e. air max bb lows. Can someone post all the pics of nike/jordan models that are the same shoe

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